History

[Autumn_Breeze]

I wasn't too interested in history at school - but I remember bits, so my memory might be out (from what I learnt at school and what I learnt in later life ).

My son however, seems to have a thirst for history and I'm not quite sure 'how' to teach him - here's my dilemma:-

As a child - if it was in a history book - I took it as fact - but in later life I realised that history books are very much flawed, in that they tell what they want you to know most of the time - and leave out other important facts. When I moved to France - it made me more sceptical.

I might be being stupid.....but I need some pointers on teaching him about WW11 (I don't mean educate me). I know all (well most of )the 'history' from the British point of view....but I've got myself really confused because he'll be being brought up 'academically' very French - so I don't want to give him the 'view' from the British history books - yet don't want him to just have the view from the French ones either.

....I'm probably confusing people....so here's an example:-

In WW11 'British' history - it portrays the French in a very different light and acts as though Britain had to 'step in' to save France when Germany took hold - yet in the French history books (school history text books) there's not really much mention of the British involvement. Which is fine - they're not exactly gonna teach knew generations that they gave in without a fight (which they didn't).

....so - now that I've seen how different countries can portray the same 'history' as fact (which may be true - yet it's different people perceptions of the same situation) - it doesn't help when wanting to teach a child about it, yet still staying 'impartial'..... I know I won't get the 'true history' - but I'm wondering just how much different people in different countries saw WW11 (either from being around at the time - or by being taught it in schools around the world).

I actually think SFB can teach me something here - if he's willing to...

[Mr Morningstarr*]

I think you'll find Dad gives a very interesting version, being as our family name is Schmidt!

[Ck]

My Grandad wrote a book about his wartime experience. It's a shame I can't get it to you but my Grandmas coming round tomorrow so if you've got any specific questions you'd like me to ask her I will.

Bear in mind she's a bit deaf and a bit puddled though, she may start off telling me about war time things and end up waffling about the woman next door but threes bunions.

[Autumn_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Ck

My Grandad wrote a book about his wartime experience. It's a shame I can't get it to you but my Grandmas coming round tomorrow so if you've got any specific questions you'd like me to ask her I will.

Bear in mind she's a bit deaf and a bit puddled though, she may start off telling me about war time things and end up waffling about the woman next door but threes bunions.

Oooh - well done your grandad - that's a lovely thing to have in your family. I lost all my grandparents at a really young age - so I could never ask them about it when I got older and interested in it (and my grandad was a D-day dodger ).

I haven't got any specific questions - it's just I'm interested in how the same history is seen through different eyes.....It'd be really interesting to know how German children are taught it though.....I've heard they don't even know what the 'goose -step' is - it's just the rest of the world that seems to do it when Germany are the war are mentioned.

I'm just not too keen on history books - I like to find out from 'real' people....

[Dayus]

I doubt there are any old germans on here A_B, so you're not likely to hear the truth.

[Wycliffe]

Hey A_B - what an interesting subject! I would like to learn similar things myself because I am not sure that what I may have been taught is anything other than popular opinion.

I think from the American standpoint that we are taught, Germany pretty much rolled on and the allies were pretty weak and ill equipped until the US jumped in and won the war. Even the mighty Brits had disarmed to the point of being sitting ducks by the time Hitler decided not to invade Britain. Like the UK does, the French are laughed at here too [For Sale: WW2 French rifle – never fired, only dropped once] The British would risk victory to stop for tea, while the Russians depleted German bullets with a steady supply of human targets.

On the other hand, I have heard that the Germans suffered terribly after WWI at the hands of the British, who deprived Germany of food and medicine at that time - which just got them aggro for years.

My summer camp always had international kids and there were some German kids there - one bunked under me. We saw a film about some nuns in a Nazi concentration camp. The German kids were astonished and were unaware of the specifics of what seemed a taboo subject to them.

[SFB]

Who wants to see my war scar? I really do have one from 1944!

In WW 1 both sides depleted each others bullets by throwing men into the firing line, the recently celebrated battle of the Somme 90th anniversary reminded us of the complete waste of multi thousands of lives over a few months. Google: battle of the somme, then take your pick.

There are many versions of historical events ref WW 2, start with the german invasion of Poland, or even liebensraum and work from there. Simply google: WW 2, for masses of info that will keep you busy for weeks.
The only wartime history you'll get from any individual is their own personal recollections or that which has been written. The french, belgians, germans, japanese, americans, dutch, etc., will all have similar historical facts with bits left out or added. Arnhem is a good story of bravery and courage.
For British involvement, WW 1 & 2 in France and Belgium, google: British expeditionary force to see how Britain did it's best to help on both occasions.

Google: Lend lease act of March 11th 1941 to find out about the american involvement before Dec 7th 1941 when they were forced to join in by the japanese at the Pearl Harbour saki party.
Before that, they were selling equipment to the UK illegally. To get round this they were flying planes to the border with Canada and towing them across.

All in all A_B, it doesn't really matter too much which version of history children learn unless they want to be history teachers or historians. Let them learn what they're taught and work from there.

Any idea how the french white flag factories are doing these days?

[Autumn_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Wycliffe

Hey A_B - what an interesting subject! I would like to learn similar things myself because I am not sure that what I may have been taught is anything other than popular opinion.

I think from the American standpoint that we are taught, Germany pretty much rolled on and the allies were pretty weak and ill equipped until the US jumped in and won the war. Even the mighty Brits had disarmed to the point of being sitting ducks by the time Hitler decided not to invade Britain. Like the UK does, the French are laughed at here too [For Sale: WW2 French rifle – never fired, only dropped once] The British would risk victory to stop for tea, while the Russians depleted German bullets with a steady supply of human targets.

On the other hand, I have heard that the Germans suffered terribly after WWI at the hands of the British, who deprived Germany of food and medicine at that time - which just got them aggro for years.

My summer camp always had international kids and there were some German kids there - one bunked under me. We saw a film about some nuns in a Nazi concentration camp. The German kids were astonished and were unaware of the specifics of what seemed a taboo subject to them.

Very interesting. It's really funny how different people see it - from reading books etc from a British point of view - America had a lot of 'friendly fire' and shot a lot of people - not just the Germans.... I like the 'story' about the Americans involvement in the D-day landings - where they flew to the wrong place and parachuted, smack bang in the middle of the Germans... I think British history portrays the Americans as a bit 'dippy' sometimes....yet all in all - it portrays very much a team effort - mainly with Britain and America.

I'd aslo love to know the Canadian viewpoint regarding the d-day landings - where they were regarded 'stupid' for trying to break the German line (at an area that no other country would try because they weren't sure about). They were basically 'slaughtered' - but Britain knew to try somewhere else because they wouldn't have a chance ( so Canadan did them a huge favour). To me - the Canadians were brave - yet to be honest - history portrays them as extremely stupid in a lot of books.

[sixaparrat]

If you go to the museum at Les Invalides in Paris, you will see that the French won WW2 after the Brits deserted them at Dunkirk.

Of course, the Free French Army needed the Brits, but only to supply them with uniforms and sten guns ....apparently

[Autumn_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Shitforbrains

Who wants to see my war scar? I really do have one from 1944!

In WW 1 both sides depleted each others bullets by throwing men into the firing line, the recently celebrated battle of the Somme 90th anniversary reminded us of the complete waste of multi thousands of lives over a few months. Google: battle of the somme, then take your pick.

There are many versions of historical events ref WW 2, start with the german invasion of Poland, or even liebensraum and work from there. Simply google: WW 2, for masses of info that will keep you busy for weeks.
The only wartime history you'll get from any individual is their own personal recollections or that which has been written. The french, belgians, germans, japanese, americans, dutch, etc., will all have similar historical facts with bits left out or added. Arnhem is a good story of bravery and courage.
For British involvement, WW 1 & 2 in France and Belgium, google: British expeditionary force to see how Britain did it's best to help on both occasions.

Google: Lend lease act of March 11th 1941 to find out about the american involvement before Dec 7th 1941 when they were forced to join in by the japanese at the Pearl Harbour saki party.
Before that, they were selling equipment to the UK illegally. To get round this they were flying planes to the border with Canada and towing them across.

All in all A_B, it doesn't really matter too much which version of history children learn unless they want to be history teachers or historians. Let them learn what they're taught and work from there.

Any idea how the french white flag factories are doing these days?

....France announced today that it plans to ban fireworks at Euro Disney, following last night's display that caused soldiers at a nearby French army garrison to surrender.....

Thanks - I'll have a google later (hubby starts back at work today - so he's pinching my computer again ).

...ooh - lets see the war scar...